Trouble with phonics?

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mimzie
Feb 11 2006, 06:24 PM
A family friends dd is 6yr old, she had to repeat kindergarten last year, 2nd yr now. She knows very few names and sounds of the alphabet. She's highly distracted and shy at times too so I guess when the teacher is teaching and Julie (this little girl) is not paying attention, they dont make sure she gets it. They move on and she's behind. She only has 3 months left and is no where near ready for 1st grade. I looked up the schools website, couldnt find an actual website for them but wasnt surprised when I found that they have not be recognized for their great reading scores You'd think 2yrs in kindgarten should do good, its good they didnt pass her but they definitely arent making sure she gets it this time around either. She is not mentally retarded I dont believe but she has very poor fine motor skills (Cant open doors, never been made to try etc) Her younger sister is a brute (in a nice way LOL) She's the one that would beat up a boy if she had too, not Julie, I dont know if its because she's been so girly that her parents baby her more or what?

Anyway, she's here this weekend so we can work on reading (well phonics) and I've already seen some progress in the hour of school we did today but I'm wondering why in a total of 15 months in school she doesnt know this stuff already! I have never dealt with public schools so I dont know anything about it on the parent side. Has anyone had a child failing in kindergarten and no one did anything about it? The father is frustrated!! He cannot read himself and is not happy at all about the school failing his dd in the same way he was. He was taught the look say method and it never stuck, I cannot tell if they are teaching her this
way or not. She says they work on sight words but she doesnt know any phonics yet so is she not paying attention during phonics or are they not teaching it at all? URGH!! Anyway... If you were the parent of this child what would you do? I am going to write a letter to the teacher (because father cant, he wants me to help, mother wont, not on her priority list ) I'm definitely going to ask what their method for teaching reading is but what are some other questions I can ask?

She knows that C says "C-uh C-uh CAT" so now every time she sees a C she says "C-uh C-uh Cat" no matter what the word is. I showed her the word CAT and when I show her the A in the middle of the word, she again says "C-uh C-uh CAT" Maybe they have let her use that too long so now she sees "C" as CAT sound? urgh! help



Again
Feb 11 2006, 06:34 PM
That is unheard of! Failing Kindergarten. Isn't that just nuts!
Okay....that said. I taught my kids to read with Phonics Pathways by Doloros Hiskes. I wish I
was done with it I would send it to you. It would take her no time to "catch up" as you have
found out. My girls were reading well by the time they were 5 or so.....Eli, well, we're still
working with him and he is 5 now. The parents could work with her with this book....it
doesn't take brain surgery, and it may help the father, too. I jsut read though that one
parent can't help and the other doesn't have it on her priority list.... .
If I was the parent I would teach the child at home while still sending the child to school.....if
they don't want to homeschool. or feel they can't.
I don't know...it's hard to watch a child slide behind like that. Maybe if they see the progress
from time with you they will feel motivated to do something themselves. It's a sad
situation....but if she is only in Kindy...then maybe she will get more in the next grade and
find a teacher willing to work with her.



Sherinova
Feb 11 2006, 06:56 PM
The father is motivated. So, he is the one that would be doing the teaching. Needs to be
something he can read, too. Hmmm....I can't really think of anything better than Phonics
Pathways that Pam mentioned. I will keep thinking about this...but this is an unfortunate
situation.



mimzie
Feb 11 2006, 08:46 PM
Ok I'll be looking for Phonics Pathways! Not on ebay but I'll search til I find it. I found the
site and it looks pretty good!!
Right now I have (as far as phonic books etc) ...
Hooked on Phonics (K) (this is Julie's)
Reading Made Easy with Blend Phonics for the First Grade
The Natural Phonics Primer with Blend Phonics
Alpha-Phonics
Word Mastery
Several of these are the free ones I downloaded from Don Potter web site
The only one I've really worked with is Reading Made easy, that is what I'm using on mine
but it starts right away with words and I just wonder if she's ready for that? I've worked with
mine with phonics for a long time (birth?? LOL) so they are definitely ear-trained for phonics,
Julie is not so that's one reason I'm hesitant to start with words right away, I dont want to
leave her behind!
Till I find Phonic Pathways, has any one used these? I really dont care much at all for Hooked
on Phonics, personal thing I'm sure, I just dont see why they charge so much to teach a child
how to read when every child has the right to read whether their parents have money or
not...anyway! lol
I've looked thru Word mastery and that focuses more on one letter at a time so I may try
that one since I have it on hand.
Thanx for the replies! I will be looking for Phonics Pathways to add to the collection LOL



sumi
Feb 11 2006, 09:04 PM
I know I sound like a stuck record on this, but Letterland has been successful in teaching
children phonics where other programs have failed. I am a big fan of the program.



mimzie
Feb 11 2006, 09:38 PM
QUOTE(sumi @ Feb 11 2006, 08:04 PM)
I know I sound like a stuck record on this, but Letterland has been successful in teaching
children phonics where other programs have failed. I am a big fan of the program.
ARGH!!!!

"After completing her purchase at Amazon.com for Phonic Pathways, distraught
homeschooling mother and friend logins to see yet another "Great book" to buy and shoots
her computer..."
LOL! I *just* got done at amazon... back to amazon/ebay/web to search for Letterland now.
Note to others... please refrain from posting any great books for at least 3 hrs.. posting of
new books can continue once that time is reached... LOL
Thank you Sumi..
And to others, I found Phonic Pathways on Amazon for under $20 so I bought it.
I'll be back in a bit....



MomofBunbun
Feb 11 2006, 09:39 PM
I've used Alphaphonics. The child needs to know the letter sounds prior to starting. It would
be terribly hard if she didn't.
I have a friend down the street whose son is in 1st. He is struggling with reading. The
reading teacher has talked to her and said "I've done all I can with him". I lent my friend a
copy of Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons and her son was seeming to get it. The
problem , for him, is that they are shoving the sight words down his throat and not allowing
him to sound anything out. I believe he is highly frustrated and is not bothering to try. 100
EZ Lessons does encourage the child to sound out everything--even if the word is not
pronounced the way it is sounded out. I can honestly say that this did not hinder my dd in
learning sight words. For example, she would sound out y-o-u and then say that is a funny
one and then say it correctly. Eventually she dropped that extra step and now just reads the
word as it is pronounced. My friedn stopped using the book because it is just frustrating him
more since he is not allowed to sound out in reading class.



Again
Feb 11 2006, 09:56 PM
QUOTE(mimzie @ Feb 11 2006, 09:38 PM)
ARGH!!!!
"After completing her purchase at Amazon.com for Phonic Pathways, distraught
homeschooling mother and friend logins to see yet another "Great book" to buy and shoots
her computer..."
LOL! I *just* got done at amazon... back to amazon/ebay/web to search for Letterland
now.
Note to others... please refrain from posting any great books for at least 3 hrs.. posting of
new books can continue once that time is reached... LOL
Thank you Sumi..
And to others, I found Phonic Pathways on Amazon for under $20 so I bought it.
I'll be back in a bit....

Rachel
It's the curse of the homeschoolers....buying all the books that everyone
recommends!



Beth S...in AK
Feb 12 2006, 01:30 AM
Yep! 'Tis true! If it worked for you it must be good....let me buy it and try it too!



Melanie
Feb 12 2006, 05:41 AM
I taught my son to read at home - I didn't trust the schools with something so important. (I
guess homeschooling was inevitable for us! )
I would just sit down with her every day and use whatever program works for the little girl,
or even a pencil and a piece of paper (that was my curriculum ) until she starts "getting
it."
You're sweet to help your friends like this.



mimzie
Feb 12 2006, 06:19 AM
Thank you Melanie , I do appreciate your words!
The father offered to pay me, pretty much whatever I wanted to do this (He paid a tutor
$300 a month for himself a few years back and still cannot read..) But I told him that I
couldnt put a price on teaching a child to read. Every human has the right to learn to read
and *I* cannot be paid for giving that child what is rightfully theirs. (Which is why I refuse to
pay for high priced phonic programs lol) I dont see how they can charge so much and make
such a huge profit off of giving a human something that is rightfully theirs. I am a collector of
phonics books, yes.. LOL We have realized that but I think the most expensive one I've paid
for was the Phonics Pathways which was $16.
My *dream* is to teach other kids or tutor them if they are struggling in reading, I dont
know where or when I'll start as time isnt allowing much right now. I am not the best teacher
or wanting a huge pat on the back, the ultimate payment is when just 1 more child "gets it"..
then 2.. then 3. I'd love to teach in PS when my kids are grown. I figure I'll be an expert by
then, what else would I do LOL
Anyway sorry to ramble...



mom-to-five
Feb 12 2006, 06:53 AM
Aww... I think it is great that you are helping them out. I was just curious though if I am not being to nosy why exactly is this not a high priority for the mother? I was all so thinking and this may seem silly that if you found something that works for the daughter it
might for the father



mimzie
Feb 12 2006, 11:17 AM
=QUOTE(mom-to-five @ Feb 12 2006, 05:53 AM)
Aww... I think it is great that you are helping them out. I was just curious though if I am not being to nosy why exactly is this not a high priority for the mother? I was all so thinking and this may seem silly that if you found something that works for the daughter it might for the father

The mother is just not hmm how to put it nicely LOL She loves her kids but doesn't love the responsibility that comes with it? She wouldn't ever neglect her kids but when it comes to emotional love and attention, she's not there at all for them. Its kinda like "Ok, I gave birth to you, now you are on your own, I'll feed you but that's about it" She doesn't sit and talk with her kids daily, she doesn't ever play with them, she's either at work or on her computer and the kids are just *there* Last summer I brought their middle dd to my house a lot. I would have her for a week or more and the only one that called would be the father. The mom never called or seemed to care how she was doing and when I brought her back, it was kinda like "Already??" Then we'd usually stay for a bit and after a few hours the mom would say "Are you taking her back with you?" The dd isn't a bad child at all (I don't believe in such a thing LOL) the mom just didn't want to deal with them.
She can read and could easily help Julie but wont . I live an hour away so it's hard for me to constantly help her. I plan on bringing Julie over for Spring Break to give her a whole week of learning.
I've been looking into stuff to help the father also, he's going to take more work because he's gone 30 yrs with the wrong way of learning to read. I've found out its a lot more complicated
There's a block there in the brain on reading and once that's removed, then he can start over and learn but gotta get the blockage down first.



Again
Feb 12 2006, 04:14 PM
That Phonics Pathways was written with remediation in mind.....it is not babyish or
anything....just laid out and matter of fact. They do have a "mascot".... Dewey the
bookworm....but it isn't a big deal. I think this book would help the Father, too.
It starts with short vowel sounds.....
Then it adds consonants in front of the short vowels...
sa, se, si, so, su
ma, me, mi, mo, mu
and so on....
when a few consonants are learned then short owrds are introduced.... like run, Les, fun, etc.
Then it takes off from there.



Jill
Feb 15 2006, 10:36 AM
I worked in a aftercare program at a local public school and had a two "lost boys". The local public school system at that time taught whole language method only and they were completely clueless about reading. I used a book from the library call How to Tutor by Samuel Blumenfield, who created Alpha Phonics. The reading section was a simple step by step method of teaching reading. I copied several pages and made basic daily lessons for the boys and worked 15 minutes a day for each boy during the homework time. I saw a lot of improvement in a year's time.
How to Tutor might be a good choice for both father and child. Also, you said that the dad has a reading problem. You might want to pick up the book Phonics A to Z by Wiley Blevins from Scholastic. This is an AWESOME resource book for anyone wanting to understand the phonic method. It is very readable and had great practical resources. If you get it (or inter-library loan), read section 5 Meeting Individual Needs and photocopy alphabet recognition assessment and the phonemic awareness assessment to give to Julie the first day she arrives and assess where she is. The book also give great ideas for books and activities to teach the all levels of phonics instruction and list of tests and assessments if you still have problems.
Also, has anyone informed the school about the father's reading problems? Learning
disabilities run in families and they may want to have her assessed by the school special education program. There maybe a processing disability there that no one knows about.
Please keep us updated about this family and we will keep you in our prayers.



hs4hmom
Feb 15 2006, 11:06 AM
I think I would start with the alphabet and make sure she even knows her letters. You can "retrain" her to understand that "c" makes the c (try not to use "uh" in it). It might be confusing to try to say a word without the "uh" attached to the "c".
Sounds like dad can learn too, just need to find the key that opens that door. At least he's motivated--that's more than half the battle.
Also, maybe some self-confidence is missing there--on both parts??? Or just Julie.? A little accomplishment will probably do wonders for her.
I learned by taking "at" and adding all the consonants that would make words: bat, cat. etc.
But you know, it might help to add every consonant--even if it doesn't make a "real" word--
just to reinforce the sounds.
Does dad understand any basics of word or even letter sounds?
I know, not much help, but maybe the answers to some of these questions will provide some
direction.
Good luck.



quiltinmommy
Feb 15 2006, 12:29 PM
QUOTE(mimzie @ Feb 12 2006, 11:17 AM)
She wouldn't ever neglect her kids but when it comes to emotional love and attention, she's not there at all for them. Its kinda like "Ok, I gave birth to you, now you are on your own, I'll feed you but that's about it" She doesn't sit and talk with her kids daily, she doesn't ever play with them, she's either at work or on her computer and the kids are just *there* I'm sorry but I would consider this neglect. Parenting is a lot more than just giving birth. Just my 2 cents....
I'm glad to see that dad is willing to go the extra mile even when he struggles with the same issue. I also think it's great he wants to pay you..... consider the payment for your time away from your own family...not the gift of reading. Good luck!



mimzie
Feb 15 2006, 04:30 PM

Jill...
Thanx for the books, I'll be looking them up! (Yes, its an addiction! lol) Can one have *too many* phonics books? I think not! LOL
She does still have trouble with the alphabet so I'm trying to teach it all as we go with Starting at Square One
I dont know if the school knows, I'm sure they do but I'll ask and see if he has told them. I've also been doing a lot of research on the net on dyslexia (which the father has) and a lot of it says that *some* dyslexia is from the way they were taught to read which probably rings true in this case so I'm kinda scared to say that is Julie's problem, I don't want the school to label her as that just because the father has it too ya know? I don't want them to give up on her I guess.
She did really well when I worked with her over the weekend. It seemed to almost click!

hsmom....
self-confidence is a BIG part of it!! She's use to everyone just telling her what it is but while she was here she got out the flash cards and pretended to be teacher with the other kids and I was observing every second of it... little did she know.. LOL and she would say "What's this letter... It's a..(whatever it was)" She did probably 10 of them (But when we work with her on them she doesn't know any of them, she just sits there saying "I don't know") Its like she's scared to get it wrong?? Maybe she isnt praised enough at school for the little accomplishments? (We mad a HUGE deal out of "cab" when she got it right, we made a certificate and everything LOL) So hopefully that will boost her confidence some.

I dont know what level the dad can read on, he knows cat, dog, etc, I'm not sure if he knows all CVC words or just a few of them, at first he was pretty embarrassed about it but I think he's getting more comfortable with letting me know he cant read much at all. I have several test I could do with him but I don't know if he's ready for me to know that much ya know? I talked with him about it the other day, just a little to let it sink in and I'll talk with him more about it later. We are pretty close, he's like a brother to me so he's learning not to be embarrassed about that stuff with me.



quiltinmommy...
I agree about the neglect thing but I didn't want to say "She's a horrible mother..." LOL I had to give her a little credit Last summer when she knew Julie would probably be going back to K, the school had given her a book to work with her and a cd (full workbook) and she gave it to me saying "Here, do you want this for your kids, we'll never use it so it shouldn't sit here and collect dust"

The dad is very determined to not let what happened to him, happen to his dd.
I think a lot of Julie's probably is that she doesn't ever have to think for herself, she knows if she just sits there, someone will tell her the answer so she's not having to think at all for herself.... in a classroom full of kids, she's not the first to answer so she just listens for the answer and that's about it, then at home, dad works with her and when she just sits there waiting for the answer, he gives it to her thinking she doesn't know it at all... but like I said, maybe she's scared to try for getting it wrong? Hopefully over spring break I can work with her enough and give her the confidence she needs.
Thanx again to everyone that has replied!




hs4hmom
Feb 15 2006, 08:09 PM
=QUOTE(mimzie @ Feb 15 2006, 02:30 PM)
Jill...
at first he was pretty embarrassed about it but I think he's getting more comfortable with letting me know he cant read much at all. I have several test I could do with him but I don't know if he's ready for me to know that much ya know? I talked with him about it the other day, just a little to let it sink in and I'll talk with him more about it later. We are pretty close, he's like a brother to me so he's learning not to be embarrassed about that stuff with me.

You know, dad needs to understand that intelligence has nothing to do with education. He has a learning disability--which can be fixed.
Good for you for working with him and daughter.
Perhaps Julie could "teach" you. Purposely get the letters or sounds wrong. Let her correct
you.
Good luck.


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